Proton BASIC Community

I spent last week with a pal in Devon. They have a Flame Effect Fire. I want to make one and have deduced this so far (not bothered about heat, it's the flame effect I'm after):

The "flame effect" comes from a long shaft with reflective, randomly shaped paddles that slowly rotates. Strong amber spotlights shine on these paddles. The light then travels through flame-shaped holes in an opaque screen. From they the light hits a screen but I can't work out exactly how.

The effect is very convincing. I searched around on the net but can't answer the last bit: what the "screen" is made of and exactly where it sits. Les did flame effect LEDs but this is different (I think).

Any ideas?

Charlie

I have seen electronic fireplaces where the fire is a display.
Another was a fireplace with rags that get blown upward with red LED shining on them, also looks very realistic.

Of course nothing beats the real thing.

Perhaps a photo or video of the one you saw ?
jewgle for artificial fireplace and see the images.

Search on temu.com for faux fire
I always try to see what else has been already (like in China), you have 1,4 billion Chines giving you their ideas of what has been done before... BEEG brainstorm.

You could try the flame effect neon bulbs Charlie.

I know some of the older flame effect neon bulbs were excellent, and a lot brighter than the modern ones, so maybe there are some sitting in boxes waiting to be useful again in the museum. Or a combination of LEDs slowly cycling the red and orange colours with a pseudo random movement, and flame neons would give a very realistic effect.

So old meets new.

Les, Fanie

I've looked at flappy rags and LED sequencing but that's not what I'm after.

Something like the picture below. It's difficult to see how realistic these fires are from a still. I tried a video but the site wouldn't allow it.

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-DkFerG48g

They look just like real flames, you'd have to be in the know not to be fooled. I have found another way of doing it: using ultrasonic transducers to atomise water into a cloud of vapour. A gentle breeze from a fan, some orange lights and it's there (sounds too easy but hey-ho).

Charlie

A clever method, but where does all of that moisture go?

What I can see of the video, it could do with the red/orange light moving around a little bit, as a real fire does over time when the coals/logs burn down.

A good question Les. My version lets the atomised water escape into the room. Photo below of the latest stage we've reached. The "logs" are 15/22mm pipe lagging that has been attacked with a knife and part-burned on a gas ring. The LEDs under the "ashes" will change. Needs some paint and positioning of the logs. Ultrasonic atomiser not arrived yet. A lot to do....

I'll keep you informed as we go along if you like? (I've discovered that getting the wife involved is not a bad idea! Looking forward to Fanie's comments about this.)

Charlie

It's winter here and cold, so I was thinking perhaps make the fireplace one that can rotate.

In winter you burn the real one making heat.  More and more of the rocket designs make no smoke and burns clean.
Only mistake most have is taking air in from the room so the heated air burns, while air intake should be from the outside and the heat in the room remains.

In summer you run the cold one.  The power the video says sounds a bit much, these ultrasonic mistifiers draw very little current as does a fan(s).  I bought a mistifier from Temu.com and in the hot summer it should have a nice cooling effect.

As a side-note.  I don't know if you in England have enough sun to heat water with vacuum tube solar heaters, but even if you don't, these tubes will heat the water some and should make a good saving on your electricity to heat the water more.

https://youtube.com/shorts/KVZvlp-8cxE?feature=shared

Looks very realistic with wood and chimney too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeh9CFSr0ZU
The Truth About Water Vapor Fireplaces: Are They Worth It?

The presenter claims that the amount of moisture in the air does not have any real effect.

I've had solar water heating for the last 25 years Fanie. 20 evacuated tubes on the roof. I haven't kept records but on a day like we've had today (hot), it can heat about 200 litres of water to 70 degrees C over the day. I am sure I have saved a ton of money over the years using this.

I think the video may have talked about the power used by the actual heater, not the mystifier. Many of these fires offer pseudo flames or pseudo flames and actual kilowatts from a true heater element.

Really good looking logs Charlie.

On the simulated flame fire we had, many years ago, it also had some small areas of the logs with dark red glitter on them, so some areas sparkled a bit more, as if hotter.

For the LEDs, I would recommend using a strip of WS2812B RGB LEDs. They operate with a single wire, and the firmware I have produced can control hundreds of them, at any colour, or hues of colours. They can also be dimmed or made very bright indeed.

Thanks Les. Yes, I am using WS2812B's embedded in some of the logs. Using your excellent driver, I have got a slow, random red/orange/with a flash of blue now and then. But I need some more WS2812B. The prices seem to be about £12 per meter which sounds daft.

I like the idea about a dark red sparkle now and then, I'll include it.

Where can I get a couple of meters of WS2812B at a good price, anybody?

Charlie

I have about 30 single WS2812B devices, if you want them Charlie.

They are not on a PCB strip, but they are large enough to solder by hand, even though they are SMD.

If you need them on a strip, it is better to order them from China, and not from a UK company. The price difference for the same product that they also bought from the same companies, is crazy. I know, a profit is required, but those profits are greed!

For example. For a 2 metre strip of WS2812B devices from China, it is £6.14 with free postage, but you will need to wait a few weeks for them:

WS2812B on Ebay

And more searches on ebay will probably get them even less expensive. Keep away from rip off Amazon, and "extreme" rip off Etsy. You can try AliExpress, but their taxes and shipping costs make things that look inexpensive, rather expensive in the end.

Thanks for your kind offer Les, but I have been rummaging around and found enough odd lengths for what I need. It's amazing how much stuff one accumulates over several years. I couldn't get one strip to work until I remembered that they only work "one way", I was driving the wrong end.

The idea is that you can see glimpses of orange/red/flashes of blue through little cracks in the "logs". The main "floor" area is covered with expanding foam with a string of 50 Christmas lights (orange) embedded in it. These glow gently (PWM via PIC) and give a nice hot coal effect.

It is a fact that prices are wildly different depending on where you look.

Charlie

Now is a good time to order logs ready for winter, giving them time to fully dry out.
Ash is apparently the best type to burn.

Just saying.

John

One reason I am making this artificial flame fire, is that just seeing "a roaring fire" psychologically makes me feel warmer. I still can't work out why 18 degrees C feels different is summer to the same temperature in winter.

We had a 125 year old Ash tree in our garden which suffered rotting roots. Nobody knew until it fell on our brand new conservatory, destroying most of the tree and all the conservatory. I should have kept it for logs, damn. Nobody was hurt but my golden retriever, Paddy, had a bit of a shock.

Charlie

Glad you were not hurt by it Charlie.

In this house, it still has the 1965 (when the house was built) tiled coal fire place, which is a monstrosity, but does its job perfectly in the winter, with logs and expensive black lumps of '? ? ? ? ?' that they now call coal. :-)

One of our girls (cats) Hannah, absolutely loves the open fire, and falls asleep in front of it, and it is a bugger to get logs on it, because she does not move. LOL. And who can blame her, it is lovely seeing the living room, all lit up with the glows of real flames, and lovely standing in front of the fire, warming up a cold backside on a winter's evening. LOL. So I totally agree with your building of it, for the sake of comfort and nostalgia.

I was going to knock out the fireplace this summer, and put a log burner in, but my heart problem put a big "NO" to that idea, and I could not afford to get anyone in to do it, so I will have to do it myself. Maybe next year. :-)

If you fit a log burner, you should fit a chimney liner, so a bigger job than you might think, unfortunately.

John

Quote from: John Lawton on Today at 11:57 AMNow is a good time to order logs ready for winter, giving them time to fully dry out.
Ash is apparently the best type to burn.

Just saying.

John

"Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.

Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.

Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown

Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom

Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But ash wet or ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by."

Two wood burners for winter heating here - Kiln dried Ash is excellent. Though our supplier has some amazing hard wood blocks - the name of which I forget - but it's almost double the heat output (of Ash) once it gets going. Burns fiercely for a longer time (compared to Ash) and with a lot more heat. I think they're from off cuts for drying hops or something similar?

Oh! and now is the time to fill your oil tank if you're in the countryside (and rely on Oil heating). Prices (unsurprisingly) rises in winter. I wonder why that might be?