Proton BASIC Community

I have just received the news that I no longer can use my academic license of Embarcadero Rad Studio and will have to revert to the community edition which is about 2 major updates old.

To purchase a commercial developers license the cost is £1300 which I am not prepared to fork out.  To revert Positron Studio to the community version will require a significant amount of work since there were numerous rendering issues some of which I had to work round.

Throughout the life of Positron Studio I have received donations totalling less than £250 so I cannot justify continuing with this project.  Fortunately you now have other 3rd party IDEs so you still have alternatives.

Hi John,
Sorry to hear that, but completely understand.
For the same reason I've had to do all my recent work with Delphi XE5 as the cost of buying another copy is just too much and I preferred not to use the community editions. I had one community edition that ran out after a year and the thought of reloading my components was off putting. Over the years I have bought 5 Delphi (including 2 Turbo Pascal) versions.
It's very difficult for amateurs to justify the costs for creating public domain programs.
I will continue to use PS and accept sometimes search is not perfect. Thank you for your work.
John

I know exactly what you mean John and John.

The prices of some software is utterly dreadful and makes one wonder how they stay in business charging so much for a piece of software that is "rented". I thought it used to be that when the licence ran out, the software could still be used, but there were no new updates that could be added! Heck.... I still use Delphi 7 or BCB 7, and they work perfectly. Updates are, sometimes, pointless with such programs because they add items that are simply not needed or used, and if your programs work, the correction updates are not needed either, because most of them are for bits and pieces never used in a program.

I've sent you a message Johnb. Your IDE is excellent, and improves the compiler so much. I just wish I had the ability to fund it John, but, I am on the bones of my arse money wise now, so I have to just get on with it as best I can. I know.... Foolish me for working so hard for so many years to make someone else money and a good reputation and not myself, but, as my lovely dad used to say to me, "you're bloody clever Leslie, but you have no common sense", and he was soooooooo right. :-)

John

I would buy it and think it warrants to be sold to fund the cost of the license and time.  Really think the compiler and IDE are worth the same as the Mikroe versions that sell for close on £250.

I agree.

The problem is, they have money to use for advertising. And they did advertise from the start. Whereas, I wrote the compilers while working with a "company" that actually told me "Advertising is not working", so it was dropped completely!

Not even a good website or internet advertising or promotions or editorials. I was so busy making money and a good reputaion for them by creating projects, I did not have the time, or the money, to do it myself, and they were taking 50% for doing... What???

If only I had not been so, bloody, foolish and trusting, and insisted it was advertised in the American and Asian markets as well! When I look back, I could kick myself for being such a bloody idiot for all of those years!

But now, the internet is flooded with some truly dreadful "open source" rubbish and people are more interested in "it is free", and not "that is good quality". Just look around us now, and you will see lots of crap in everything from TV channels to clothes to consumer goods etc, and quality does not matter anymore. Then there are companies who sell stuff for stupidly high prices, but advertise a lot, so the "sheep", sorry "people", fall for it as a form of brainwashing and buy what is stupidly expensive and not anywhere near what it is actually worth!

Sent you a mail on the subject Les.  You have developed a commercial grade compiler and you should benefit from it now.  Cant change the past but you can drive the future. 

I'm not sure which IDE to use. All three have their own advantages. I'm undecided between the Visual Code Studio based IDE created by @atomix and Positron Studio created by @JohnB. I've never tried FineIDE, I don't want to be unfair. £1300 is a really big sum for limited time use. If you do not earn a high income with this license, it is not wise to bear this cost. I have a suggestion. If there are users like me who want Positron Studio to continue, raise your hand. Let's split that cost. I am ready at the level my budget allows.

I may not be good adviser, but there are good projects in the open source arena. Some of these hard works have been taken by the industry with,  perhaps, no compensations.

For my projects I promote the free to use. I have to admit that are just simple examples and no intention to make a profit.
When programs getting expensive, there may be who will try to break the limitations.

Hi, less buy two licenses to support you in the compiler, thanks friend, I hope that others join in the economic contributions thanks for your work

order information
Order time Aug 8 2022 at 0:16
Order number 17-08955-00082
Total GBP 79.98 (2 items)
Seller: top204

Oscar Eduardo Rodríguez Gómez
CALLE LERDO DE TEJADA N500 ESQ PASEO TLAXOMULCO, CASA AMARILLA
MELCHOR OCAMPO EDO DE MEX, EDO DE MEX 54880
México

Many, many thanks Oskar.

I am busy building your installer now and will send the download link in your Ebay messages. I never thought, in a million years, I would be in a position where I am "literally" counting the pennies. :-( It takes a lot to admit to that fact, but since my injury I have had to face up to the truth, otherwise, my anxiety gets worse. :-)

I propose to make a paid compiler update and error correction.

For example, £30 a year.

This can be done even on this forum - https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/SMF2.1:Paid_subscriptions

@gevv will help.

Quote from: JONW on Aug 06, 2022, 10:51 AMSent you a mail on the subject Les.  You have developed a commercial grade compiler and you should benefit from it now.  Cant change the past but you can drive the future. 

Absolutely.

Les, you must embrace more realistic fees for your product. Many of us are champing at the bit to pay a fair price for what is indeed, a commercial grade compiler. It is in our interests to do so, to ensure the continuance of the product which many of us are dependent upon professionally.

Quote from: JohnB on Aug 04, 2022, 09:46 AMTo purchase a commercial developers license the cost is £1300 which I am not prepared to fork out.  To revert Positron Studio to the community version will require a significant amount of work since there were numerous rendering issues some of which I had to work round.

Having been is a slightly similar situation with something where the cost of continuing was not feasible I completely understand your decision.

There are many unknows when it comes to the current Proton/Positron user base, i.e...
How many are there?
How many are actively using it?
How many of those are using illegal copies and so probably won't upgrade
How many of those with legal copies are working on small hobby project that don't require them to upgrade from Proton to Positron?

All of which effect any potential income from both the compiler and any IDE, if we were to assume that all the registered forum members are active users and have purchased a Positron upgrade and that your IDE was the default IDE supplied with the compiler (as I believe was being considered at at one point) then it would only have taken a small £5 increase to upgrade fees to cover IDE development would have covered the £1300 cost with some to spare.

There are some good and generous people here who are willing to donate what they can to help fund the IDE and/or Positron, which is extremely kind but is not exactly fair as a few pay to keep things going but everyone benefits and their future generosity cannot be relied upon.

Quote from: atomix on Aug 08, 2022, 05:38 PMI propose to make a paid compiler update and error correction.

For example, £30 a year.

Another forum I use has an optional subscription which brings enhanced benefits such as increased editing times/functions on your own posts and access to subscriber only forums, if the links to updates/upgrades were placed in such a forum so that only subscribers could see them that may work. So that instead of free error corrections and devices updates and paid for upgrades, you pay for the year and get access to all updates, corrections and upgrades released within that subscription period, having first purchased the current base version of Positron update (i.e. V4.0.0.0, 5.0.0.0, 6.0.0.0 etc.) that is keyed to you via your custom installer.   

One issue for that approach is that there are potentially several different user types who have different needs...
1) The commercial user, using it regular/use in products they sell for gain
2) The semi-regular user who want to keep up to date and uses it occasionally for personal project and/or small work project that are used in house rather than sold for gain and
3) The occasional hobby user, who uses it for personal or school projects.

So, if it is possible perhaps there should be multiple subscription types to cater for the different user types, i.e...
1) £35 Annual membership, providing access to forums containing link to Updates/Correction for all base versions, Upgrades (new base version if available) and new devices for 1 year (primarily for business/commercial users).
2) £5 Annual Membership, access to forums providing links to Updates/Correction only for your current base version, no access to upgrades or new devices (for non commercial users those who want to keep their current base version up to date with corrections).
3) £35 Day Membership, same access as the annual membership but only for a day to allow a one off update to the latest version available at that time (for very occasional users that may only need to update once every few years).

 I second this idea. A further suggestion.

I am currently sitting on £34 million in NFT's which are expected to become tradeable later this year. IF this happens, then I will personally fund ALL future development of Positron. I know this is, at the moment, wishful thinking, but the offer is there and I hope it pans out.

i agree. devide and conquer..

A yearly subscription on the IDE and compiler would benefit all.. We all pay what for what we love and do not want to loose.. All users pay.. I would implement this from the next upgrade while this is an upgrade with adding very interesting new pics, that might be interersting for a lot of people..

In this way, it is honest and the price might stay acceptable for everybody...

All depends on the amount of users ofcourse.

Last question , how do we get the word out (for no budget) that this is the ideal package for PIC development in Basic...

Quote from: Amateurtje on Aug 10, 2022, 09:31 PMLast question , how do we get the word out (for no budget) that this is the ideal package for PIC development in Basic...

It will not be easy, but potential options are...

• Personal Web Page: You can use it to share information about your latest PIC based project and mention Positron. For example if it was a weather station you could make the title "My PIC based home weather station using Positron". If you also make that the description in the page header, i.e. <meta name="description", content="My PIC based home weather station using Positron"/> and ensure the keyword contain "PIC" and "Positron", i.e. <meta name ="keywords", content="weather station, PIC, Positron"/>. That could help search engines return Positron related results where "PIC" is a search term.
• Social Media: I never use it myself, but for those that do a post about your latest PIC project mentioning Positron my result in some people taking a look at it.
• Published article: If you create an PIC based project or Tutorial you think other may find interesting you could try submitting it for publication somewhere, i.e. Everyday Practical Electronics. If they decide to use it then Positron gets a mention in a published magazine.
  

Although the impact of those may well be less than that of a one off advertainment in a suitable publication, when there is no budget for advertising the above suggestions may be as good as it gets.
However, if any of the above did result in driving some new traffic to les' website and/or this forum it may not help that the compiler is now called Positron, yet the forum URL is protoncomplier or that the forums Meta description mentions Proton and not Positron.
Those of us who have used the compiler for along time and know the history of it understand its relation to Proton, but those that don't could find the references to Proton when looking for Positron confusing, potentially leading them to think that they are in the wrong place - just an observation.

I know this thread has strayed off topic a little but back to original topic; I have now have my development system up and running and will be publishing a new version which will contain many requested fixes and a new and I hope improved Search and Replace.

Hi John,
I thought I would add my thoughts to this, I still use the standard IDE, mainly because Positron studio does so much more than I actually need. I should try it more as I know what time and effort you have put in to it.

What I was going to suggest though, I recall you had considered adding an ICD to it, perhaps it would be an idea if you were looking at that option to see if people would be prepared to pay for it as I definitely would for that. Or possibly make it as a stand alone option.

Bob

G'day John,
That's great news and I know this represents a large outlay for you.
I'll send a modest donation in addition to my annual donation to Les.

PS Sean, that offer would be a turnaround for further development of Positron. I hope the NFTs work out.

John