Proton BASIC Community

Hi all,
Just a thought. The Arduino crew have the ability to relatively easily use the ESP modules with their library's. Proton/Positron which IMO is far superior to Arduino code makes Arduino a better solution for using these popular, cheap, IOT, modules, I regularly use Arduino compiler when using stand alone ESP modules.

Maybe down the road Positron could have a library for ESP modules, I'm sure this will help with increased sales of Positron?

no need for a library. just connect your ESP8266 to a micro RX/TX pin. remember that the ESP works with 3.3V and micro normally +5 volt.
use a 74hc125d as bus buffer. use hardware serial port (HSEROUT). assign a hardware interrupt routine to receive the rollback data from ESP.
there are few commands in the ESP8266 datasheet.

https://www.esp8266.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=datasheets:20a-esp8266_rtos_sdk_programming_guide_en.pdf     

There is no "actual" Arduino!

They all use the open source GCC compiler, which, over the years, has been adapted for a lot of microcontrollers and microprocessors, except 8-bit PIC microcontrollers, or a decent version for PIC24 or dsPIC33 devices? So the creativity for, so called, arduino clones is "zero" because other people have done all the, actual, work. Unfortunately, that is now the way of the world and companies are also coining in on what other, silly, people have done as open source, and I've actually seen, first hand, that happen for real! Also, Microchip do it with the compilers they "sell" They are the open source GCC compilers, yet they sell them for approx $1000! because they have a small optimiser attached to them that was also adapted from an open source piece of code!

I've always thought of open source as just sheer Ego tripping. People do all the work, for nothing, so other companies can use their work and make lots of money from it! Where is the sense in that?

I just wish I had the nature to "rip" people off, and I would not have worked all of my life to make other people money, and not a lot for myself. :-(

If my health improves, I am looking into adapting the compilers for ARM processors.

With the low low cost of the pi Pico module, £3.60 inc VAT there must be an appetite for a superb basic compiler like yours Les.  They are so widespread that virtually anyone could afford a pi Pico, even the pi 4 is competitive with many Arduino modules although, for many, that would be over the top.

Hi,

QuoteIf my health improves, I am looking into adapting the compilers for ARM processors.

This would be a great step for man and also for humanity.

Regards,
Gamboa

Thanks Les and I hope the future brings you better health. I for one feel that you and others have breathed new life into Proton and I very much appreciate that.

As a recommendation I have used an open source app called EspEasy on ESP8266, it's pretty good and allows for a robust connection manager, hundreds of external hardware drivers and the ability to control the drivers through simple basic style scripts. The forum support is superb and I would recommend this app for anyone wanting to use the ESP for anything more complex than using a PIC to talk with it through the ESP serial port.

I was doing something with Esp8266 and I chosen to install micropython. The system is robust and whether an error occur the mycropyton won't let me down, without answers.

Thanks for your suggestions, but if I write the compiler for an ARM processor, it will not be for a "fad" item that is here today and gone in a few years, or changed beyond recognition in a few years. :-)

It will be for ARM processors, then it can be used on any unit that has an ARM processor on it. M0 type first, then move on to other ARM types, if the compiler sales are worth the time.

I, personally, would not use "native" Python on any device because it is an interpreted language, so it makes the device run a lot slower than it is capable of. This, to me, rather defeats the object of using a fast device. :-) There are some compilers for Python, but the ones I have seen are not really very good, and some are simply translators from a type of Python language to C++ using GCC to produce the final Asm code, so a user may as well use C++ in its simpler form. :-)

Hi,
A Positron ARM compiler would be "el copón" (awesome).

Regards,
Gamboa

Quote from: top204 on Apr 08, 2021, 01:26 PMThis, to me, rather defeats the object of using a fast device.

Agreed, I was pretty confused when I got hands on the ESP. So I preferred an interpreter rather than a compiled code.

Quote from: top204 on Apr 08, 2021, 01:26 PM:-) There are some compilers for Python, but the ones I have seen are not really very good

That is the Cython, which is the micropython core installation.

Hi, I just found this forum and glad to see Les is still active and want to thank him for the great development tools that I have used for years.
When I wrongly thought support had gone for the proton suite I took a plunge into Pico Pi and micropython which was an interesting exercise in learning a new (to me) way to code, but the main benefit I found was the USB connectable small board with all the clock and voltage regulator requirements taken care of for small projects and no need to spend an hour or so soldering up the perf board ready for a simple project, the REPL is also handy and eliminates the need to add a display for debugging.
 I have spent a few hours looking around for any close equivalent for the PIC but couldn't find anything at comparable cost. I am not even sure if such a thing is possible due to the hardware.
I would be more than happy to pay to be able to use Proton BASIC on a Pico PI or equivalent ARM type board.

Thanks.

You are talking about a very big development, many hundreds of hours, probably thousands, to develop a compiler for the ARM architecture. Sadly the income from this product is far to low too justify such an investment.  I agree a lot of people on the forum would love to see that but few are willing to pay a commercially realistic price for it.

Unfortunately, John is perfectly correct. In order to create a, competent, compiler for the ARM devices, it would require many, many hours of work with zero payment, and I do not have the resources for that. Heck, we struggle now. :-)

I was creating, in fact, have created, a Positron8 and Positron16 development board, with on-board USB and regulation etc, but their is simply no demand for them and I cannot afford advertising etc... So has JohnW, created an 8-bit dev board. But, it is impossible to beat the Chinese market for anything now, which IMO, is an absolute disgrace and shows that "money first" is all that matters to modern governments, who look after their rich cronies first. Us plebs do not matter to them whatsoever. :-(

In my searching I did find a version of basic for the Pico Pi, but its nowhere near being as useful as Proton.
No worries, my main motivation for trying the Pi at all was because I had thought Proton was gone.
The project I was working on for my first "port" over to micropython could not touch the PIC version for timing resolution (with my code anyway) so I will still be using Proton for as long as I can.
Thanks again 

Quote from: top204 on Apr 08, 2021, 01:26 PMThanks for your suggestions, but if I write the compiler for an ARM processor, it will not be for a "fad" item that is here today and gone in a few years, or changed beyond recognition in a few years. :-)

It will be for ARM processors, then it can be used on any unit that has an ARM processor on it. M0 type first, then move on to other ARM types, if the compiler sales are worth the time.

I note that Mikroe offer Basic (and C) compilers for PIC and ARM:
https://www.mikroe.com/mikrobasic with prices at $215 for PIC and $255 for ARM so if they can offer good products at this price, shouldn't Positron be in the same market?

Hi,

I'd say Mikrobasic for ARM is pretty dead. I have followed the forum for this product and it has been neglected for quite some time.
Now you only have a few threads per month and some are not even answered.

regards,
Gamboa

Why do you think that is? Lack of interest in Basic on ARM, or an unattractive product?

John

Hi,
It is pure speculation because I have no data to support it. But when a user asks something in the forum and there are no answers, the product does not have many users. That tells me that not having many sales is a residual product for Mikroe. Some libraries that are available for PIC in C do not exist for Basic. I have also seen continuous complaints from users. Not from now that there is almost no thread in the forum, but years ago. I also rely on the fact that in their new environment, after two years, they have not developed a Basic for ARM. That tells me that it is not an important product for Mikroe. A few years ago I gave up the idea of trying that product. The forum does not give me a good feeling.

Regards,
Gamboa

Quote from: top204 on Apr 07, 2021, 12:11 PMThere is no "actual" Arduino!

They all use the open source GCC compiler, which, over the years, has been adapted for a lot of microcontrollers and microprocessors, except 8-bit PIC microcontrollers, or a decent version for PIC24 or dsPIC33 devices? So the creativity for, so called, arduino clones is "zero" because other people have done all the, actual, work. Unfortunately, that is now the way of the world and companies are also coining in on what other, silly, people have done as open source, and I've actually seen, first hand, that happen for real! Also, Microchip do it with the compilers they "sell" They are the open source GCC compilers, yet they sell them for approx $1000! because they have a small optimiser attached to them that was also adapted from an open source piece of code!

I've always thought of open source as just sheer Ego tripping. People do all the work, for nothing, so other companies can use their work and make lots of money from it! Where is the sense in that?

I just wish I had the nature to "rip" people off, and I would not have worked all of my life to make other people money, and not a lot for myself. :-(

If my health improves, I am looking into adapting the compilers for ARM processors.

FRIEND, COULD YOU TELL ME WHEN YOU START WORKING WITH THE MICROS ARM I AM WILLING TO HELP YOU ECONOMICALLY FOR THIS JOB IF YOU ARE AN EXCELLENT ENGINEER GREETINGS