3D printer anyone?

[See_Mos]

Completely off topic I know but worth a try.

The LED's on my water features are faulty.

Does any member in the UK have a 3D printer who can make me some of the plastic parts from the attached sketch at a reasonable price please?

I will need at least 2 of the one on the left and 6 of the one on the right.  The material colour and type does not matter but ideally a light colour and UV resistant.

[trastikata]

See_Mos,

I've been using the JLC3DP services for a while. Prices are extremely competitive and they have a lot of options for materials. Ordering is very straightforward.

https://jlc3dp.com/?source=JLCPCB-top-productbar

[RGV250]

Hi,
I could print them but am pretty crap at drawing 3D stuff. How urgent are they, if not urgent I can have a go.

Regards,
Bob

[Peter Truman]

I'm pretty good with CAD - if needed I could do the 3D model here and email the step file to someone in the UK to print?

[Stephen Moss]

First, there does not appear to be any dimentions showing the distance from the top and bottom of A to the Z/base of the C/D areas of the left part.

Second, the larger (left object) will require the use scaffolding that needs to be removed...
If you print the larger object vertically orientated it will use scaffolding in the b-b area to support the Z/base of the C/D areas.
Printing cylinders on their side generally means less scaffolding, although it risks partial collapse of the top side, so the end result may not be round. In this case, scaffolding would likely be inserted inside and beyond the Z area to support the C/D area, which then needs to be removed.
Consequently, whichever oritation it is printed it perhapse using 100% fill when printing to make it strong enough to withstand the pressure put upon it while removing the scaffolding would be prudent as the walls appear to be only 1mm.

The only ways of avioding that is to use a dual head printer where the second head is using PVA or some other water soluable material as disolvable scaffolding or to use LASER sinter printing which is likely to be cost prohibative.

Most people tend to use PLA when printing, bacuse it is cheaper and easier to use than ABS as certainly in the past for early 3D printers result using ABS wes genreally better when an enclosed print space & heated print bed was used.
However, PLA as swells when it absorbs moisture and so may not be the best material for parts on a water feature, as depending on what material the rest of the water feature is made from and by how much the PLA swells you may have to consider the possability that when it swells either it or the surrounding material could crack depending on which is the weaker material.
Therefore, ABS would probably be a better choice of material to make the parts from, as it will not swell due to the moisture and if the holes come out a little indersized, being an less brittle material ABS it should be less likely to crack/split if they need drilling out a little than PLA.   

[Peter Truman]

I'm mostly printing in PETG H/F on the Bambu machine - it's much easier than ABS (which really needs an enclosure) and doesn't suffer from the moisture problems with PLE.

My colleague has just embarked on a Resin printer experiment (expensive, high quality machine) - he has 8 Bambu printers (for production work) and now feels he should do most things with the resin printer instead. It does produce fabulous quality models- but they do tend to be a tad brittle (still getting to grips with it)

The consumables used with Resin printers are quite toxic so they do need to be setup in an appropriately ventilated space - and/or use an extraction fan (the port is provided on the machine that he has)

[See_Mos]

Thanks everyone, some interesting points there.  Obviously my mechanical and drawing skills are very poor as is my knowledge of 3D printing.  The water feature makers cannot supply replacement LED kits hence the request.

I had a look at jlc3dp and it looks like I will need detailed mechanical files first.

Stephen obviously has a lot of experience of 3D work.  Scaffolding would not be a problem, would bridging the centre solve the problem, this could be drilled out afterwards. surface finish is not important.  PLA would probably not be suitable for a water feature and the material would also need to be able to withstand freezing temperatures.  It sounds like ABS would be better.

First, there does not appear to be any dimensions showing the distance from the top and bottom of A to the Z/base of the C/D areas of the left part.

I will try to come up with a better drawing if anyone can help with the rest.

Fillet internal corners would be better.  I was thinking of starting with the LED holes undersize and filing to make the LED's a tight fit but it might be better to start at 5mm and glue the LED's in if they are not tight.  The resin will find the tiniest hole and seep down before it cures and any other filler might not protect the wiring properly.

Obviously price is important, or I could make a suitable contribution to Les's fund

[Fanie]

The drawing is difficult to see properly from here, however - If I look at the required parts, it seems to me that one can draw them assembled and as one piece, and still put the LED's in, and seal the wires with an epoxy glue.  That will eliminate the print support required.
I always first try a print which seems to require support, in most cases the printer print the bridge (part that spans in air in a model) without problems, and the bambu should be able to.
If the time to draw these is a problem for you I can also do it, just send a better larger picture.

Btw, I have PLA parts sitting in the weather and sun for many years - and still does very well.  The darker colours seems to do better in the sun than light and transparent ones.

[Fanie]

I'm mostly printing in PETG H/F on the Bambu machine - it's much easier than ABS (which really needs an enclosure) and doesn't suffer from the moisture problems with PLE.

Very good solution.  Peter can even print the LED holders in the part.

[See_Mos]

I was thinking about this earlier today.  Would it be easier to make the left one in two parts cut horizontal across the middle, the upper part similar to a bottle cap and the other with the stem, then glue them together?

What is the thinnest wall thickness that will give reasonable strength without making printing difficult?

[Stephen Moss]

It is difficult to say what the minimum thickness of the faces being joined should be but I would say each should be 1mm minimum as it has to withstand prying off the print bed and the thinner it is the more likely that it could break in the process as sometimes prints can be difficult to separate from the print bed.

Thinking about it, you could print the Left one vertically as one piece with the stem section at the top, depending on the printer software it may fill the B-B area with scaffolding or it may be smart and simply extend a thin walled tube down from the the 4 orbital holes and the central stem hole to the print bed as the scaffold.
Alternatively, you could try and preempt the print software and build those scaffold tubes into the design in the hope that prevents the print software from determining more scaffold is required, which is what I have done in the attached files (one STL file for printing and the DesignSpark mechanical CAD file). Any undocumented thickness I have made 1mm and I made the unspecified depth of the Z area 10mm as it looks like the smaller 10mm high part sits inside it.

If you can clamp the piece afterwards that should make it rather simple to remove the tubular scaffolds by simply drilling them out with a suitably sized drill bit.

[See_Mos]

Hi Stephen,  Is there a free programme that I can use to view the files?

If the larger one was made in two parts then the centre section could be 2mm thickness each and the LED's would still stick through enough when the two parts are glued together.  Any thicker and the lower part would need the LED holes about 6MM so that the LED's could be recessed.

The only sizes that matter are the outer diameter of the main body and the outer diameter of the pipe for the pump connector.

I am happy to pay to cover reasonable costs if anybody would like to have a go please.

[Peter Truman]

OnShape is pretty good - full featured 'online' CAD application that runs well - providing you have a reasonable connection (I'm on 50Mbps and it runs fine at that)

Quite a steep learning curve (as with anything) but very satisfying once you get going. You can also cooperate 'in real time' (so more than 1 person working on a model at the same time - not that I've ever actually done that, but it is advertised)

The application is essentially free but.... any file you create in the free version is available to 'the public'. Never been something that has worried me and I have hundreds of project from small to complex in my account. (They did contact me and asked me if I would like a pro account - but at minimum US$5k I politely turned them down - they were fine about it and said I was free to continue using it. If they had said maybe US$1k I would likely have joined up)

I find STEP files come out with better resolution with 3D printing - but I don't think there is much real difference

[Peter Truman]

I took the liberty of downloading and opening Stephens *stl file (In OnShape - you just create a (public) document, then click on '+' icon (bottom left) - navigate to the file and let the app do the rest.

I also imported into my slicer (Bambu Labs) and I don't see any huge problem - the advantage of Bambu labs is you can make your own custom supports - I'll give a go and see what happens.

[Peter Truman]

First print attempt was not great - just trying again.

I do have a colleague who has a resin printer - it's a thing of beauty and makes really good, high quality prints.

If we have no luck I can ask him to lend a hand - there is no need for supports at all with this kind of printing. Are you sure the model is correct? 

[Peter Truman]

Second print attempt - much more successful (needed a bit of glue stick on the print bed)

The walls are thin, but workable - however with the model on the left the horizontal disk (with the led holes in it) is a bit too thin to be properly stable. The result is the stem 'wobbles' a bit - likely to break off. Probably fine once it's filled with resin. Adding a small fillet on both sides would help enormously. My understanding of what this does suggests that a fillet, at least on the inner face between the led disk and the stem and the disk and the outer wall should not be a problem?

The cup on the right hand side is simple. I note your comment about 'only 1 feature has a 10mm hole which can be drilled after resin has set. A centre dimple would help alignment'

Just so I'm clear, this cup has 4 leds fitted from the underside, it also has a 10mm hole - which you plan to drill after potting the leds? Experience suggest that trying to drill holes in a 3D printed part is difficult - tends to shred the print.

I think it would make more sense to print this with an internal 'stem' similar to the other part (I'll attache a pic) - I would also print it with thicker walls, especially the face with the leds (unless there is a specific requirement that prevents this?).

Hope that helps. Let me know if you would like me to have a crack at this. Post from Australia for this would be minimal - it weighs practically nothing.

[Peter Truman]

Just for an experiment - if you wish, try this link Water_Thing

That will just open the OnShape sketch - no ide if you need an account or not. It's entirely parametric so you can just click through what I did from top to bottom (there only 7 steps to this part).

Hope that's helpful

[Stephen Moss]

Hi Stephen,  Is there a free programme that I can use to view the files?

There are probably some online viewers available that may work for viewing STL print file, or you could try downloading software for 3D printer and use that.
As for the CAD file DesignSpark mechanical is free and not too difficult to use for simple things, I don't think you can view its native files on other software.

If we have no luck I can ask him to lend a hand - there is no need for supports at all with this kind of printing. Are you sure the model is correct?

Oops, it appears that I forgot to make the central hole in the smaller object, other than that I believe it is correct unless the 20mm circle the LED holes are on relates to the distance to either the inner or outer edge of the holes rather then the centre as one would expect.
I have corrected it in the attached file which contains both a version with incorporated supports and without (indicated with "NS"), and includes print files in both STL and OBJ format.




 

[Fanie]

Charlie, just for the hell of it, send me the drawing (in decent size) of the part you want with a basic indication of how it fits and what the different parts do.  I'm sure I can make it work for you.  my name at faze dot co dot za.